posted by Ethan at 10/19/2006 10:34:00 AM
I know! I was fairly disgusted by the article. If Romney was trying to do this, my opinion of him rises from minor annoyance to anger. Even if it is not true, continues to prove that Republicans try to manipulate the media into believing the church endorses them.
I saw Mitt Romney a few days ago on one of the religious TV stations which broadcasts over the air in SLC. He was speaking to some right-wing audience about the "assault on marriage" by "activist judges". Then, he lovingly introduced Dr. James Dobsen who addressed the audience over a video connection.I had a moderately favorable opinion of Mitt from his work on the Olympics, but if he is going to side with that particular political element, I can't support him in any way.
I'm sorry - this surprises you HOW???A few days ago I took an online poll for this or that... the last question was "if you could pass one irrevocable law with impunity, what would it be?"My answer: Churchs pay taxes. Period.
Who is Craig Foster and why did he use his FosterCL@ldschurch.org email address to organize Republicans in Davis County?http://www.utahpolicy.com/pages/newsletters/daily496.htmhttp://www.utahpolicy.com/pages/newsletters/daily495.htmhttp://www.utahpolicy.com/pages/newsletters/daily476.htmSame calendar listing, but you get the idea.
Oh, please, not the tired "activist judges" mantra again. The right wing is like Pavlov's dog with that phrase.
As I read the Globe article, I keep trying to find the so-called "church leaders" helping the Romney campaign. The only church leader I could actually see mentioned was Elder Holland when he granted a courtesy visit to Kem Gardner (a major Democrat donor, coincidentally) and Romney's son.Anyone who has been around the block knows that these kind of courtesy visits happen everyday and with a wide variety of personalities. Neither Elder Holland, Mitt Romney, nor the LDS Church did anything wrong.As for Kem Gardner and Romney's son, you can hardly blame them for seeking the contact information to a mother-load of obvious Romney supporters. It was a nice try, but credit Elder Holland for steering them away from the Church and toward a BYU alumni organization. (If, in fact, he was even the one to suggest that.)The campaign obviously has an Evangelical strategy and a Catholic strategy; doesn't it make sense that they would have a Mormon strategy? Would you want a man holding the most powerful position in this country who would put together a campaign team so inept as to not have a Mormon strategy given who he is?He has to deal with all the handicaps of being a Mormon. Is anyone suggesting that he cannot therefore also take advantage of the few benefits that come with being a Mormon? (It's called networking in the real world.)Just as a lot of Catholics voted for Kennedy, and a lot of Jews voted for Lieberman [Gore], so too will a lot of Mormons vote for Romney. Do we really have to pretend not to know that?
As for the question, "Who is Craig Foster?" Let me say, for the record, that he is not Lars Larson. It has already been established that Mark Towner is Lars Larson.Sorry, Mark, I can't help but play along. I'm sure that you deserve better, but how else can I respond to such accusations? I hope I do not embarrass you too much. Oh, and by the way, I didn't mean that bit about being "psycho."
Rule #1 in Political Campaigns: Solidify your base. While not something I approve of, necessarily, it is the right thing to do politically. While smart and understandable on his part, it's not the most prudent thing to do for any church or denomination, risking their tax free status. Now, wouldn't THAT be interesting?? All the more justification to believe he is moving in this direction.
Yes, the move makes sense strategically for Romney. The church, on the other hand, has a lot to lose. The point that bothers secular people is how involved is the church going to be? If the Catholic church had openly supported Kennedy it would have been a huge issue to non-catholic voters. Likewise, if a Mormon candidate uses ties to the LDS church to establish his platform and campaign, it will be a big issue non-Mormons. Specifically, I could see evangelical Christians making a campaign issue out of it.Second, when the separation of church and state was established in this country it was a very wise, very bold move meant to protect individual's rights and organized religions from the State. It is interesting that the perception now is completely the opposite. This system has worked quite well for a long time. Attempting to blur those lines may serve the interests of a single candidate in the short term. However, in the long run it will create unforeseen problems that will not be worth it.
Someone should ask Jon Huntsman, Sr., father of Governor Jon Huntsman, Jr. (R/LDS), if he ever uttered the words "I agree, I think we should give the Olympics back, too." If he has trouble remembering, remind him that it was in Salt Lake City on February 28, 1999, at a fireside for roughly 500 LDS Singles.Someone should ask Governor Mitt Romney (R/LDS) if he ever uttered the words "Don't you know! The Prophet wants the Olympics to come here?" If he has trouble remembering, remind him that it was in the year 2000 right after he autographed the front page of a copy of the Salt Lake Observer from the previous year that had a story about me on the front page. Someone should ask Senator Orrin Hatch (R/LDS) if his presidential campaign ever made use of prospect and customer lists from Living Scriptures International, (possibly the most complete commercial listing of members of the LDS Church ever compiled), in his campaign for president in 2000. If he doesn't remember, have him talk with his presidential campaign manager, Spencer Stokes, (R/LDS) or Richard Pyne, the then secretary of the Utah County Republican Party, and simultaneously, its webmaster. Or Sister Leslie Powers, Norfolk, Virginia.Someone should ask Congressman Rob Bishop (R/LDS) if he, as state party chair for the Republican Party in 2000, or his staff, also had at least partial access to the Living Scriptures prospect/client database. Someone should ask Congressman Rob Bishop (R/LDS) if it's true that he just recently spoke at an LDS fireside for a stake center full of LDS Singles, and why his staffer, John Tanner, came along for such an ecclesiastical event on the Sabbath. You could also ask him exactly when his leading challenger, Bishop Steve Olsen, (D) is scheduled by the ecclesiastical organization that tendered Congressman Bishop's invitation, to get his (Steve's) equal fireside time?Someone should ask KSL radio talk show host and cinematic reviewer, Doug Wright (R/LDS), how many times he has had Senator Orrin Hatch on his radio show since he announced his intention to run for an unprecedented sixth term. Then someone should ask Doug, or his producer, how many times Doug has had Pete Ashdown on his show since Pete announced his intention to challenge Senator Hatch, who is reportedly considering a seventh term, for which he is now apparently fundraising already) -- (last I checked, the answer was zero) -- and how many times he intends to have Pete Ashdown on his radio show, between now and November 7.Someone should ask Governor Mitt Romney (R) if his campaign has received or intends (or intended) to receive prospect/client information from Living Scriptures International for use in future electioneering efforts, for example, should he make the unlikely decision to run for President of the United States some day.So many questions. Not as many answers. Is there a pattern there somewhere?
Living Scriptures is a private company and they can do whatever they want with their list as long as the people on that list have not been promised that their information will not be shared. It has nothing to do with the LDS Church.The Catholic Church didn't support Kennedy? Were you even alive then? Maybe the Pope didn't come out in open support, but I can remember sitting in the pew and having the pastor tell us that we had better vote for Kennedy because he was Catholic.The Church hierarchy has said they do not support any particular candidate. I believe them. Does that mean that individuals in the Church might not do things to help? No. It's their right to support whomever they like. Even Apostles have that right to individually support a candidate.My guess is that the story is only half true at best.
Mr. Ridgway, I honesty do not seek to offend you, but I believe that you need to be held accountable for what you have just posted. The problems with your comments can be summed up quite well by your last three lines:"So many questions. Not as many answers." Precisely! You offer only quotes taken out of context, misleading questions, and contradictory innuendo instead of honest and direct statements. Please be clear. What has been done wrong? And, who are you accusing for having done it? "Is there a pattern there somewhere?"Yes! There is a very disturbing pattern evidenced in your writings. We have seen this act before, over and over and over again! Sin, traitorous apostasy, delusions of grandeur, shrill accusations with little substance, persecution of the righteous, contention, violence, and suffering. Yes, we have seen this pattern before, many, many, many times before.
I wouldn't be too quick to frown at Romney, look at Democrat Harry ReidMatheson, also a Mormon, voted for a Dobson supported marriage amendment.Where there's a church, there's an infrastructure for a politician. It wouldn't be an isolated event should this be true.
How do you figure, wannabe?
Well, Mr. Ridgway, I want to say that I use my fingers and toes, but that would be a lie. The truth is that I generally use a pencil and paper, that is, if I don’t have access to an electronic calculator. But, enough about me, how do you figure?Please forgive my levity, Mike, but the ball is still in your court. You can’t get out of answering my questions by simply asking me “How do you figure?”Please be accountable for your statements. Please do not attempt to squirm away and change the subject. If you really believe what you were trying to imply, which I am sure you do, then please come strong. Lay it all out there clearly. Don’t play games with us.What was done wrong? And, who are you accusing of having done it?
When I "lay it out" wannabe, it's not going to be in the comments section of SLCSpin.com.In the meantime, have you asked any of those people any of the questions I suggested should be asked? If you did, what did they have to say?Mike
Okay, Mike, I am going to let you off the hook. But, when you do decide to "lay it all out there," please post a note here telling us where to go to get your account.As for asking all of those people the questions you suggest, the answer is no, I haven't asked a single one of them. The reason is because much of that material is already in the public record.Jon Huntsman, Senior made many comments on the record to the effect that he opposed Salt Lake accepting the Olympics with the cloud of scandal hanging over its head. He is an honorable man. He was an LDS General Authority at the time. His father-in-law, David B. Haight, was an LDS Apostle. He loves this community, and in his view, the bribery scandal was unworthy of what Salt Lake should be all about. I respect him for his integrity.As for Mitt Romney, he also comes from family with an LDS Apostle (Marion G. Romney) and a deep love of the community. And, what he said was true, the Prophet did want the Olympics to come to Salt Lake. A lot of us did. President Gordon B. Hinckley was very supportive of this effort. I imagine that his opinion was very much like my own:Everyone knew that Salt Lake was the most worthy of all the bid cities for the 1998 games. But, we lost to Nagano because they bribed and we didn't. After that, Tom Welsh and Dave Johnson decided to hold their nose and play the game the way the Olympic Officials designed it to be played.They greased the grease balls and we won. Even though it was still far less than what Nagano did, is that something we like? No. But, did Salt Lake still deserve to win the bid on its merits? Yes, it did.Upon learning of the bid excesses after the fact, should we cut and run? No. Should we put on the best Winter Olympics in history? Yes, and that is just what Mitt Romney did. The man is a hero.So, what is your point, Mike? Who is the villain here? Hinckley? Huntsman? Romney? Let me help you out. None of them are villains. They are all fine men.
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